Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Golbourne and Low-Ceiling Drafting

A lot of valid points for sure....as well this draft was thought to be very deep....deep into the second round.
My issue with Flyer drafting is their " love affair" with prep school and high school kids that never seem to be heard from again....they must have pile of projects from the last bunch of years for sure.....my issue is these kids have had no real competition and it shows when they attempt to move up....there is a reason why the NHL is filled with OHL, WHL and the Q.....because that's where the best kids go....in Europe it's mainly the kids that are able to play at high levels early that seem to become players.
I had hoped the Flyers would package 3,5 and seven along with futures and move up and hopefully "swing for the fence" once again in round two.

Thanks Bill. I fully agree, and would even go one step further. I would say that they should never draft that type of forward. The reason? You can easily get low cost options through Free Agency or as undrafted FA.

Or you could always get a young proven one through a trade. If a draft pick has a one in six or seven chance of succeeding, then let someone else take the risk and trade a 4th or 5th pick at the draft for a young NHL level forward you like.

The bottom line is losing out on Benn, or even Thomas Hyka who could have been drafted with the Mathers pick, if memory serves.

A lot of valid points for sure....as well this draft was thought to be very deep....deep into the second round.
My issue with Flyer drafting is their " love affair" with prep school and high school kids that never seem to be heard from again....they must have pile of projects from the last bunch of years for sure.....my issue is these kids have had no real competition and it shows when they attempt to move up....there is a reason why the NHL is filled with OHL, WHL and the Q.....because that's where the best kids go....in Europe it's mainly the kids that are able to play at high levels early that seem to become players.
I had hoped the Flyers would package 3,5 and seven along with futures and move up and hopefully "swing for the fence" once again in round two.
- landros 2

I think they hit a home run with Hagg. I know everyone is scrambling trying to turn lemons into lemonade with Morin, but I still think they will regret taking a stay out home dman with the 11th pick over an offensive-minded dman. When Pulock becomes Ryan Suter with Weber's slap shot the Flyers obsession with size will have come back to haunt them.

A lot of valid points for sure....as well this draft was thought to be very deep....deep into the second round.
My issue with Flyer drafting is their " love affair" with prep school and high school kids that never seem to be heard from again....they must have pile of projects from the last bunch of years for sure.....my issue is these kids have had no real competition and it shows when they attempt to move up....there is a reason why the NHL is filled with OHL, WHL and the Q.....because that's where the best kids go....in Europe it's mainly the kids that are able to play at high levels early that seem to become players.
I had hoped the Flyers would package 3,5 and seven along with futures and move up and hopefully "swing for the fence" once again in round two.
- landros 2

I tend to agree with your perspective. I have more of a problem with the 5-7 picks than the so-called 'stretch' at 3rd where the guy projects to be an NHL player. I couldn't help but laugh that amaroso (the 5th round pick) had zero info pertaining to him on the world-wide web except his facebook page.

I think they hit a home run with Hagg. I know everyone is scrambling trying to turn lemons into lemonade with Morin, but I still think they will regret taking a stay out home dman with the 11th pick over an offensive-minded dman. When Pulock becomes Ryan Suter with Weber's slap shot the Flyers obsession with size will have come back to haunt them.
- TheGreat28

I haven't seen either play.....but what scared me about Morin was that he moved so much in the final 45 days in the rankings....then again so did Forsberg...I don't want to judge to quickly....we will see Morin play next year in the Q.....hopefully he stays healthy....he's the 'type' of player that will need big minutes in a lot of games to refine his skills....the same can be said for any big man.

I tend to agree with your perspective. I have more of a problem with the 5-7 picks than the so-called 'stretch' at 3rd where the guy projects to be an NHL player. I couldn't help but laugh that amaroso (the 5th round pick) had zero info pertaining to him on the web except his facebook page. talk about a stretch.
- moylander

Funny story about Amaroso......I golf with a guy who played football with his dad...he told me his dad was the best athlete he's ever seen....this from a guy who played pro ball in the CFL....and that the kid apparently is the same......

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Golbourne and Low-Ceiling Drafting
- bmeltzer

Excellent blog. If they wanted this kid so bad, they could have traded up their 5th round pick a bit to get him. However, I'm really not sure why a Zac Rinaldo clone is such a priority. They have Zac at a reasonable cap hit for 2 more seasons and they have another agitator in waiting in Nick Cousins, who has a much higher upside than Golbourne.

IMHO, unless Golbourne surprises all of us and becomes a solid 3rd line winger, this is a wasted pick. Overall I'm still happy with the draft though, getting 2 top end D prospects in the 1st 2 rounds is fantastic.

I think they hit a home run with Hagg. I know everyone is scrambling trying to turn lemons into lemonade with Morin, but I still think they will regret taking a stay out home dman with the 11th pick over an offensive-minded dman. When Pulock becomes Ryan Suter with Weber's slap shot the Flyers obsession with size will have come back to haunt them.
- TheGreat28

For anyone to come out and say that Morin was a bad pick or that Pulock is going to be a star is really pushing it a bit. There's no way to know if ANY of the top defensemen taken are going to be star players at this point in their careers. Heck scouts were comparing Jay Bouwmeester to Dennis Potvin prior to his draft year.

I have no problem drafting a 6'7 defenseman who skates well with the 11th pick. Will he be a star? Who knows, drafting 17 and 18 year old kids is always a crapshoot. One thing in his favor though, is that he just turned 18 last week. That means he held his own pretty well as a 17 year old against many players who are 18-20. Lets all give the kid a chance, before we write him off as a bad draft choice.

Funny story about Amaroso......I golf with a guy who played football with his dad...he told me his dad was the best athlete he's ever seen....this from a guy who played pro ball in the CFL....and that the kid apparently is the same......
- landros 2

Nice. I really hope he pans out, as with all the flyers selections. I was kidding with my wife when he was selected.... I told her I'm pretty sure I could find more articles written on how crack is good for pregnant mothers than I can on this kid.

I haven't seen either play.....but what scared me about Morin was that he moved so much in the final 45 days in the rankings....then again so did Forsberg...I don't want to judge to quickly....we will see Morin play next year in the Q.....hopefully he stays healthy....he's the 'type' of player that will need big minutes in a lot of games to refine his skills....the same can be said for any big man.
- landros 2

This! When a player moves that much it can either be a really good thing or a Mamula. I don't think you go high risk high reward with the 11th pick. I think he will be a decent player. But to me when you have the rare opportunity to draft this high you need to get a more skilled guy, not a taller Luke Schenn (and that isn't to discredit Schenn)

This! When a player moves that much it can either be a really good thing or a Mamula. I don't think you go high risk high reward with the 11th pick. I think he will be a decent player. But to me when you have the rare opportunity to draft this high you need to get a more skilled guy, not a taller Luke Schenn (and that isn't to discredit Schenn)
- TheGreat28

Uh wasn't Luke Schenn a top 10 pick?

This! When a player moves that much it can either be a really good thing or a Mamula. I don't think you go high risk high reward with the 11th pick. I think he will be a decent player. But to me when you have the rare opportunity to draft this high you need to get a more skilled guy, not a taller Luke Schenn (and that isn't to discredit Schenn)
- TheGreat28

I remember being excited about Mamula.....the whole Ivan Drago look.....that's why I stick to hockey...lol

Uh wasn't Luke Schenn a top 10 pick?
- BiggE

Yes he was....he was supposed to be a better version of Adam Foote....still might get there.

For anyone to come out and say that Morin was a bad pick or that Pulock is going to be a star is really pushing it a bit. There's no way to know if ANY of the top defensemen taken are going to be star players at this point in their careers. Heck scouts were comparing Jay Bouwmeester to Dennis Potvin prior to his draft year.

I have no problem drafting a 6'7 defenseman who skates well with the 11th pick. Will he be a star? Who knows, drafting 17 and 18 year old kids is always a crapshoot. One thing in his favor though, is that he just turned 18 last week. That means he held his own pretty well as a 17 year old against many players who are 18-20. Lets all give the kid a chance, before we write him off as a bad draft choice.
- BiggE

Look, I get it. I'm not saying he is going to be a bust or anything like that. But the Flyers have 8 dman in their system and only one is a true puck mover - Ghost. The others all project as stay at home guys. The rest of the league is just about the opposite, or more likely a balance between the two types of player. And as we have seen lately the cost of acquiring a stay at home dman, like a Schenn who required one top player, is much much less than an offensive or two way defenseman.

This! When a player moves that much it can either be a really good thing or a Mamula. I don't think you go high risk high reward with the 11th pick. I think he will be a decent player. But to me when you have the rare opportunity to draft this high you need to get a more skilled guy, not a taller Luke Schenn (and that isn't to discredit Schenn)
- TheGreat28

The difference here is that Mamula rose up strictly because he was a "combine" freak. He didn't show much on the field per se. At least Morin rose up on the merits of his play on the ice. So there's that.

Uh wasn't Luke Schenn a top 10 pick?
- BiggE

Yeah, how did that work out for Toronto? Yeah, they were able to turn him into something valuable, but I would say that if you trade away a top 5 pick as opposed to drafting a cornerstone for your franchise it is at least a little bit of a failure.

In fairness he is a very good player and they likely gave up on him too soon.

Oh and by the way, Ottawa drafted Karllson a little later in that draft, and Buffalo got Tyler Myers as well.

But

Look, I get it. I'm not saying he is going to be a bust or anything like that. But the Flyers have 8 dman in their system and only one is a true puck mover - Ghost. The others all project as stay at home guys. The rest of the league is just about the opposite, or more likely a balance between the two types of player. And as we have seen lately the cost of acquiring a stay at home dman, like a Schenn who required one top player, is much much less than an offensive or two way defenseman.
- TheGreat28

Fair enough, hopefully Gustafsson can be that type of player while Ghost and Hagg continue to develop. In regards to Morin, I think he may end up being a better puck mover than many of us are expecting, but only time will tell.

A lot of valid points for sure....as well this draft was thought to be very deep....deep into the second round.
My issue with Flyer drafting is their " love affair" with prep school and high school kids that never seem to be heard from again....they must have pile of projects from the last bunch of years for sure.....my issue is these kids have had no real competition and it shows when they attempt to move up....there is a reason why the NHL is filled with OHL, WHL and the Q.....because that's where the best kids go....in Europe it's mainly the kids that are able to play at high levels early that seem to become players.
I had hoped the Flyers would package 3,5 and seven along with futures and move up and hopefully "swing for the fence" once again in round two.
- landros 2

By the 5th round, the OHL, WHL, and Q are picked clean because they are the most scouted leagues. If you are going to find a future star, it will be from the lower leagues. Benn, Pavelski, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg are examples of guys found in lower junior European and North American leagues at the time of the draft. Rinaldo and Goulbourne are the type of players you are going to find left from those leagues in the later rounds. Why not try for the home run?

Yeah, how did that work out for Toronto? Yeah, they were able to turn him into something valuable, but I would say that if you trade away a top 5 pick as opposed to drafting a cornerstone for your franchise it is at least a little bit of a failure.

In fairness he is a very good player and they likely gave up on him too soon.

Oh and by the way, Ottawa drafted Karllson a little later in that draft, and Buffalo got Tyler Myers as well.

But
- TheGreat28

good points, a lot of teams are kicking themselves over Karlsson
However, I would take Schenn over Myers.

The difference here is that Mamula rose up strictly because he was a "combine" freak. He didn't show much on the field per se. At least Morin rose up on the merits of his play on the ice. So there's that.
- MBFlyerfan

That s a fair point. And believe me, I would much rather that he turn into a great player than me having some stupid moral victory on a chat site. I'm just frustrated that the Flyers always seem to keep doing the same thing which hasn't exactly brought us a cup in 40 years.

good points, a lot of teams are kicking themselves over Karlsson
However, I would take Schenn over Myers.
- BiggE

Depends. I think Myers will turn it around. As everyone says, young defenseman develop at a different pace and he was a little bit Of a victim to his own success. Think of it this way...his major jump came at the highest level vs Morins leap forward in juniors. The potential is high for Morin to stagnate at some point too...

Fair enough, hopefully Gustafsson can be that type of player while Ghost and Hagg continue to develop. In regards to Morin, I think he may end up being a better puck mover than many of us are expecting, but only time will tell.
- BiggE

Actually thats a good point about Gus. I was just considering the recent draftees, but should still be in that list. So 2 of 9...still light in my book.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Golbourne and Low-Ceiling Drafting
- bmeltzer

Still wish they would have traded down to get Goulbourne. So many systemic needs and they grab a 4th liner.

Trade that 3rd rounder and add a 4th or 4th, and take him then.

I remember being excited about Mamula.....the whole Ivan Drago look.....that's why I stick to hockey...lol
- landros 2

But hey I guess having your name made into an adjective is some measure of success. As in, " Cole Mamula-d on that play and almost caught RG3 in the backfield"
Or "Morin really Mamula-d up the draft charts this year".